Автор Тема: Программа DjVu Imager  (Прочитано 125419 раз)

zen.loop

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Re: Программа DjVu Imager
« Ответ #225 : 22 ДХТаРЫм 2013, 14:54:03 »
Сделан английский вариант статьи "Использование DjVu Imager":

http://www.djvu-soft.narod.ru/scan/djvu_imager_en.htm

Статья, правда, значительно урезана по объёму - но, думаю, и так пока достаточно.

This is great, thanks a lot.

Could you clarify two things please?

-When I export from ST I don't get the files named like .sep.tiff, only .tiff, and it seems Djvu imager does not load the files without the .sep.tiff. I did this manually, and it worked.

- Maybe it would be better if you explained a little bit more about BSF and Background quality. What do they mean, and what happens exactly when you increase one or the other? What's the recommended value for Background quality? (just a couple of lines more).


Not related:
I was using ST "Enhanced" : http://sourceforge.net/projects/scantailor/files/scantailor-devel/enhanced/
mainly because of the Rectangular Mixed mode option.
Are you planning on having this feature on ST Featured?

monday2000

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Re: Программа DjVu Imager
« Ответ #226 : 23 ДХТаРЫм 2013, 00:20:17 »
zen.loop
The answers to all your questions may be found (in English) in the built-in help.

Цитировать
seems Djvu imager does not load the files without the .sep.tiff.
Options - Custom Filename
Цитировать
more about BSF and Background quality.
BSF: ranges from 1 to 12. Shows simply in how many times the background image storage size is less than the foreground one. In other words, the background layer in DjVu can be stored in 1..12 times less than its original geometrical size, but a DjVu-viewer anyway renders it to the normal geometrical size when displaying this DjVu.
Background quality
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The parameter Background quality sets the -slices option for the c44.exe utility with the following formula:

- Not more than 4 chunks are always used (although the maximum is up to 15 chunks).

- The first chunk is always equal to 70.

- The current slider value is added to the the first chunk value. So the real range of the quality regulation is from 70 to 120 (although the maximum is 210 - which does not make sense since he quality does not grow after 120).

- The current slider value is distributed evenly among the remaining 3 chunks: it is (value) divided to 16 by modulus (with the remainder). The resulting values are set (with the remainder) to 3 chunks. In case of value > 48 the second chunk is augmented by 1 or 2 (to avoid introducing the 5-th chunk).
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Are you planning on having this feature on ST Featured?
You mean the PictureShape patch? Yes, I am. But I'll try to do my own version of it - because I don't quite like the flaws of the current one.

OK, I'll add your questions into the article.

zen.loop

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Re: Программа DjVu Imager
« Ответ #227 : 23 ДХТаРЫм 2013, 17:46:21 »
Thanks. The BSF explanation is pretty clear, but the background quality is still not clear, I think.
I have no idea what the chunks, slices or c44.exe are.
Maybe it is explained in the manual, what I was hoping for is a very user oriented explanation.
What the user reading the tutorial will see is just the slider from 0 to 50. Approximately how does the size and quality increase, when I increase this?
Maybe then a reference to the manual for the rest of the explanation. The thing is, if I don't know what chunks and slices are, your explanation is not very useful.

This is just my personal experience from using the tutorial, thinking of an average user that has not much experience and just wants to learn the process for color scanning. Not really interested in the program inner workings.

If I don't check the BSF box, does it use the value 1 or 2?

NBell

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Re: Программа DjVu Imager
« Ответ #228 : 23 ДХТаРЫм 2013, 19:15:26 »
monday2000:
насчет slices просто протупил - плохо читал мануал
его можно переделать - эти важные вещи просто не замечаются.
zen:
earlier you be advised to read djvu 3 spec
do it
or try and see the results of djvu imager work - it take a little time to learn what the best option.
0 - 35% quality in jpeg term, 50 - 60% quality.
BSF - downsampling similar to Acrobat PDF optimize
« Последнее редактирование: 23 ДХТаРЫм 2013, 19:17:21 от NBell »

monday2000

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Re: Программа DjVu Imager
« Ответ #229 : 23 ДХТаРЫм 2013, 20:58:29 »
zen.loop
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If I don't check the BSF box, does it use the value 1 or 2?
1 of course. :)
Цитировать
I have no idea what the chunks, slices or c44.exe are.
Hmm. I don't have it either. :) c44 is this: http://djvu.sourceforge.net/doc/man/c44.html
Цитировать
QUALITY SELECTION OPTIONS
DjVuPhoto files are logically composed of a sequence of "slices" containing successive image refinements. Slices are grouped in "chunks" defining the progressive rendering sequence. The viewer is able to display an intermediate image after processing each chunk. A typical DjVuPhoto files contains 80 to 120 slices grouped into 1 to 4 chunks.

Simply don't bother about Background quality - it almost does not affect the size of the resulting DjVu. On the contrary, BSF affects the DjVu filesize very much, so BSF is the most interesting setting.
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Approximately how does the size and quality increase, when I increase this?
I don't know because answering that question would require the profound DjVu-wavelets knowledge.
Цитировать
Maybe then a reference to the manual for the rest of the explanation. The thing is, if I don't know what chunks and slices are, your explanation is not very useful.
Sorry, what are you expecting from a freeware program? A complete user support? :)
NBell
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его можно переделать - эти важные вещи просто не замечаются.
Ну можно, да только времени жалко. DjVu Imager - это, с моей точки зрения, вообще пионерная программа - просто чтобы на скорую руку хоть как-то воплотить метод разделённых сканов - чтобы не париться с командной строкой и кучей консольных утилит.

В идеале хорошо бы сделать кроссплатформенный универсальный редактор DjVu (внешне похожий чем-то на Scan Tailor) - куда бы стянуть все-все-все мыслимые варианты обработки уже готового DjVu - включая и функционал DjVu Imager.

zen.loop

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Re: Программа DjVu Imager
« Ответ #230 : 23 ДХТаРЫм 2013, 20:59:36 »
monday2000:
насчет slices просто протупил - плохо читал мануал
его можно переделать - эти важные вещи просто не замечаются.
zen:
earlier you be advised to read djvu 3 spec
do it
or try and see the results of djvu imager work - it take a little time to learn what the best option.
0 - 35% quality in jpeg term, 50 - 60% quality.
BSF - downsampling similar to Acrobat PDF optimize

This is not for me, I was commenting on the tutorial for other people, for future new users. Just making a suggestion to improve the tutorial, in my opinion. You really think people should and will read 70 pages of a manual of a obscure program, just to learn how to do proper color scans? That's what the tutorial is for, getting a working knowledge all in one fast easy place. And that tutorial is very good already.
What I was saying, is that it would be nice to have a small one-line-or-two non-technical explanation or description of BSF and Background quality, and how they affect size and quality, which are important parameters. I was saying the "chunks explanation" might be a little too much, or instead just not useful because it would be insufficient.

monday2000

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Re: Программа DjVu Imager
« Ответ #231 : 23 ДХТаРЫм 2013, 21:03:23 »
zen.loop
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What I was saying, is that it would be nice to have a small one-line-or-two non-technical explanation or description of BSF and Background quality, and how they affect size and quality, which are important parameters. I was saying the "chunks explanation" might be a little too much, or instead just not useful because it would be insufficient.
Do it yourself, why not? I would with pleasure reference to your article.  ;)

zen.loop

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Re: Программа DjVu Imager
« Ответ #232 : 23 ДХТаРЫм 2013, 21:06:43 »
I'm sorry, I was just explaining my point. I think the tutorial is great!
With this line you wrote "I recommend you to play only with BSF and not to touch the Background quality (because the latter almost doesn't make sense)."
I think it's clear enough, as it is now.

NBell

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Re: Программа DjVu Imager
« Ответ #233 : 23 ДХТаРЫм 2013, 23:14:23 »
zen:
analogue similarity to jpeg is clear?
djvu has no magic at all
it photo coding lossless similar to jpeg - compromiss between visible quality and size
similar to mp3 - loss detaiis and simplifying to decrease size
usually works method of "try and see"
imho djvu is good auto coding for text and lineart
if text+photo - dances of shaman with tambourine (you must buy one for dance  :) or read and understand djvu 3 spec)
for your declared aim (comics) suitable lineart image process with arcand profile + decrease colors + normalize levels - its clear was talked some time ago
imager blurs sharp lines and it is fact

monday2000:
нет ничего более постоянного чем временное, поэтому имагер всерьез и надолго.
затраты времени на супер djvu редактор не окупятся. похоже что удел djvu это микроутилиты, которые сами по себе делают все в совершенстве, легко заменяются в цепочке скан-обработка-книга djvu.
задумался о pdf и понял, что в нем даже с фирменным акробатом сложно что то сделать так быстро, как в djvu. только документация удобно делается.
почему мучил про имагер - натолкнулся на то, что при конвертировании pdf с картинками в индексированном цвете djvu огромный или замылен, если снижать размер до исходного pdf :(
потому интерес к опциям с44 по снижению цвета... пока что только фотошоп спасает, но это долго и вручную.
« Последнее редактирование: 23 ДХТаРЫм 2013, 23:27:46 от NBell »

JamboIV

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Re: Программа DjVu Imager
« Ответ #234 : 10 ґХЪРСам 2015, 00:20:00 »
тема старая, но актуальная.для просмотра DjVu - WinDjView, DjVu Reader, STDU Viewer и CoolReader. выбрать поможет эта статья, но мое личное предпочтение - DjVu Reader из-за простоты и удобного интерфейса.

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